A. "The Lord Jesus has said:’My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them
out of My hand’ (John 10:27,28)."

B. "But I believe it is sadly possible for a man to enjoy religion and after that fall, even finally."

A. "Solemnly true, my friend; for another passage of Scripture says, For it is impossible for those
who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the
Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they
shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son
of God afresh, and put him to an open shame’ (Heb. 6:4-6)."

B. "But you do not believe men can fall away, and you even preach against it."

A. "I believe whatever the Scriptures say, and the passage I have quoted speaks of the possibility
of men falling away."

B. "Yes, that is just what I think. A man may be saved, and even attain to a great height of
Christian experience, and then fall away and be lost after all."

A. "Wait, my friend! The passage I have quoted does not say saved. Now you are going further
than the Scripture, and I cannot follow you."

B. "The word ‘saved’ is not there, it is true, but is it not implied? They ‘tasted the good Word of
God.’ "

A. "This is like the Lord’s parable given in Matt. 13:5,20,21 where He speaks of a man with joy
receiving the Word, not with sorrow of true repentance; it is a superficial work, and when
tribulation arises he falls away."

B. "Well, I believe in a deep work of repentance, and that there must be saving faith!"

A. "Quite so, but in these three verses we are considering, there is nothing about saving faith."

B. "But they were made partakers of the Holy Ghost."

A. "Yes, but it does not say they were indwelt by the Holy Ghost, which is the distinguishing
mark of the true believer. (See carefully 1 Cor. 6:19; Eph. 1:13; 4:30.) They partook of the
benefits of the Holy Ghost’s presence here upon earth, they heard a pure gospel, were enlightened
by it, and experienced the wonderful privileges of Christianity. Yet it is not said they were born
again by the Word of God (as in John 3:5; James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:23); they merely tasted it. Nor
is it said they were saved, nor that they were sealed with the Spirit. Mark that carefully."

B. "Then you mean to say that they were not saved?”

A. "I simply adhere to the Scriptures without importing anything into it. But if you look at the
ninth verse, you will find, ‘But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that
accompany salvation, though we thus speak.’ Does not this show clearly that there might be all
the things enumerated in verses 4 and 5 without salvation!"

B. "But if they were not saved, what had they to fall away from?"

A. "That which you spoke of at the first:the enjoyment of religion, or, as I should rather put it,
the enjoyment of the privileges of Christianity. Remember that this Epistle was written to Hebrews
or Jews who had been connected with an earthly religion, but had heard the gospel and embraced
the profession of Christianity. Persecution arose (chap. 10), and there was a fear lest some had
been mere professors who would, when pressed by tribulation, give up their profession and go
back to the Jewish religion. Now, as you well know, the Jews had caused the Son of God to be
crucified, but God reckoned that they had done it in ignorance; on this ground He offered them
mercy (Acts 3:17). But if those who had received the enlightenment of Christianity gave it up and
turned again to the people who had crucified Him, embracing again their Jewish religion which
God had set aside, they crucified for themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open
shame. No longer in ignorance, but with eyes wide open, they associated themselves with His
murderers, and consequently with the guilt of His murder. What mercy could there be for such?"

B. "But we are not Jews."

A. "Quite true, and this fact should be taken into account when considering this Epistle, which
was written to Hebrews."

B. "Has it, then, no application now?"

A."I would not say that it has none; at any time it is a most solemn thing to give up the profession
of Christianity. I believe these verses show us how far a man may go in profession, and in the
enjoyment of privilege, without having the slightest reality. Judas was an illustration of the same
thing. He was a companion of Jesus and His disciples for more than three years; he was an
apostle, a preacher, and, we may believe, a worker of miracles (the term ‘powers of the world
to come,’ Heb. 6:5, is one used for miracles), yet Peter says, ‘Judas by transgression fell, that he
might go to his own place.’"

B. "But was not Judas saved once?"

A. "If you turn to John 6:70, you will find that the Lord describes him as ‘a devil.’ In chapter
13:10, He speaks of him as not clean, and in chapter 17:12, He names him the ‘son of perdition,’
the only one of His disciples who perished. Is it possible that he could have been saved? Solemnly
true, therefore, it is that a man may profess Christianity, enjoy its privileges, even preach to
others, yet himself be ‘a castaway.’ But I have not yet come across a single passage which affirms
that a man may have everlasting life and yet perish."

B. "But there are many passages which seem to say that."

A. "I grant you there are many difficult passages; as Peter said, speaking of Paul’s writings, ‘in
which are things hard to be understood’ (2 Pet. 3:16). But will you allow me to give you a little
advice about the reading of your Bible? Never take odd verses to build any theory upon; always
read them in the place where they stand. For instance, as we have seen, this passage in Hebrews
6 was written to Hebrews professing Christianity, and the ninth and tenth verses of the same
chapter clearly show that there might be all these things apart from salvation, while the closing
verses give the strongest assurance for the feeblest true believer. Again, many are troubled about
what Peter says as to the dog and the sow (2 Pet. 2:22); but read the whole chapter and the very
first verse tells you he is writing of false teachers. I do not dispute the fact that there are
difficulties in Scripture, for God never intended it to be read apart from Himself as the Teacher;
but if Christians would only read their Bibles carefully and prayerfully, many of their difficulties
would vanish like snow in the sunshine. Be assured, too, that God can never contradict Himself.
If you can find one plain passage which you can understand, never give it up because of passages
you cannot understand. The Son of God declares that His sheep shall never perish. Once-washed
sows, unclean dogs, guilty goats, may all perish, but you cannot find one instance in Scripture
where His sheep perish. The wolf may catch them and scatter them; alas! he has done so; but he
can never catch one of those sheep out of the double grasp of the Father and the Son."

B. "But then, apart from Scripture, I have known many of whom I could have said positively they
were saved; yet they discontinued coming to the meetings, gradually slipped into the world, and
some of them died miserable deaths."

A. "I do not dispute it."

B. "But how do you account for it?"

A. "We are always safe while adhering to Scripture, but judging individual cases is often difficult
work. Our comfort is that the Lord says, ‘I know My sheep,’ not, you know them. As again the
Scripture says, ‘The Lord knoweth them that are His’ (2 Tim. 2:19), though you may not always
be able to distinguish them. Then there are two ways open in accounting for what you speak of.
On the one hand, professors may perish; on the other hand, God’s own children may be very
naughty, though He bids them to be obedient children. In such a case be assured He will deal with
them as disobedient children, but never disown them."

B. "Then what am I to conclude you do preach?"

A. "We preach the Word (2 Tim. 4:2), as far as we have grasped its precious truth. That word
shows most clearly that a man’s mere profession is utterly valueless. One who has made the
loudest profession may fall eternally. Solemn undisputed fact! Judas was a saint before the eyes
of men up to the last; before the eyes of the Son of God he was ‘a devil.’ But that same Word
shows that wherever there is a poor sinner who trembles at the Word of God, and believes on the
Son of God as his Saviour, he has now everlasting life; and shall never perish; the Word of the
Son of God is pledged for it."